Have to think the Greenberg firing had more to do with off the court than actual

[NC Hoke]

How was it Weavers making other than hiring the man?

Weaver is totally and completely responsible for this situation and the present state of our program. He allowed the interpersonal issues he claims as his reason for firing SG to fester and deteriorate until the situation became unmanagable. If Weaver had his eyes open to what was going on inside the program, as he should have as AD, he had plenty of better timing opportunities to do this without losing his assistants and subsequent recruits/players at risk. Instead he allowed the situation to deteriorate to the point he lost his entire assistant coaching staff, and then he had a crisis on his hands. I honestly do not see how his timing could have been any worse.

The only way Weaver gets out of this is with a quick (quick like yesterday) hire that satisfies the players and recruits who are poised to defect. So far I'm not sensing that kind of outcome, and if Weaver didn't have a coach ready to come he should be fired for stupidity alone, and for flat out incompetence for the manner in which he has handled this basketball program.

If you disagree, tell me why.

[fitngoblr]

So lets take a poll

Okay. So who took the poll?
'fess up.

[MEHOKIE]

Coaching or recruiting under the circumstances that existed for Seth and will exist initially for whomever the new person is.

So lets take a poll

How many think that VT with Seth, all the returning players and the 2 recruits would do better over the next couple of year than anybody else we could hire given that the money would be about the same?

How many think we get a new person, lose the 2 recruits and maybe an existing player or 2, but the new guy has the team stronger by at least the end of year 2?

Seth had multiple years to recruit and could not advance VT beyond a certain point. I believe that the instability of his staff played a large part in the problems recruiting and the problems making post season.

So, I think that a new coach with a new staff is the right direction for the program.

[MEHOKIE]

Weaver is totally and completely responsible for this situation and the present state of our program. He allowed the interpersonal issues he claims as his reason for firing SG to fester and deteriorate until the situation became unmanagable. If Weaver had his eyes open to what was going on inside the program, as he should have as AD, he had plenty of better timing opportunities to do this without losing his assistants and subsequent recruits/players at risk. Instead he allowed the situation to deteriorate to the point he lost his entire assistant coaching staff, and then he had a crisis on his hands. I honestly do not see how his timing could have been any worse.

The only way Weaver gets out of this is with a quick (quick like yesterday) hire that satisfies the players and recruits who are poised to defect. So far I'm not sensing that kind of outcome, and if Weaver didn't have a coach ready to come he should be fired for stupidity alone, and for flat out incompetence for the manner in which he has handled this basketball program.

If you disagree, tell me why.

Uhh, no. He gave Seth multiple opportunities to flourish. Only when Seth's assistants made yet another mass exodus was Weaver forced to act last week. If Seth could keep his assistants, he'd still be here. Seth's program was plagued with an unstable foundation and that foundation was Seth's ability to work with others. No doubt Seth is a driven man, but when you consistently drive away those that are supposed to support you, there is a problem. Weaver did the math and concluded that no matter how Seth spun things this time, it really was about Seth. Good luck Seth, hope you learn how to inspire your assistants to follow you rather than drive them out the door.

[Freddyburg Hokie]

I think your personal remarks are out of line......... stuff it clown

Would you prefer to be called Pot or Kettle in this thread?

[NC Hoke]

Uhh, no. He gave Seth multiple opportunities to flourish. Only when Seth's assistants made yet another mass exodus was Weaver forced to act last week. If Seth could keep his assistants, he'd still be here. Seth's program was plagued with an unstable foundation and that foundation was Seth's ability to work with others. No doubt Seth is a driven man, but when you consistently drive away those that are supposed to support you, there is a problem. Weaver did the math and concluded that no matter how Seth spun things this time, it really was about Seth. Good luck Seth, hope you learn how to inspire your assistants to follow you rather than drive them out the door.

You completely missed my point, which is:
if all what you just said was going on with Seth, then why didn't Weaver "do the math" sooner before he lost all his assistants and put us in an impossible situation?

[MEHOKIE]

You completely missed my point, which is:
if all what you just said was going on with Seth, then why didn't Weaver "do the math" sooner before he lost all his assistants and put us in an impossible situation?

Because he was giving Seth the benefit of the doubt up to the point where, yet again, his assistants fled the program.

When you invest the resources of the bball program in a coach, you aren't going to fire him after the first or second setback, especially when there are plausible reasons for the setbacks; however, when you reach the point, as Seth did, that these setbacks are repeated for a 3rd time, an employer must consider the common denominator.

Here, Seth lost all of his assistants, yet again. There, simply was no reason for Weaver to give him another chance.

And that drove the timing.

[NC Hoke]

Please correct any misconceptions I may have.

I'm not going to say the entire situation was JW's creation. That would not be fair. However, saying JW didn't have a hand in creating the situation (other than hiring SG) isn't fair either.

JW decided to fire SG and the timing. Although he said he was forced to by all of the assistants leaving he could have let SG hire new assistants and then let them all go next year.

As for the assistants leaving, it is my understanding that they were paid significantly less than the average for other assistants around the ACC. Many people leave jobs they are satisfied with so they can earn more money elsewhere, but they usually say its about something other than money so they can still get a good reference. Why would our assistant coaches any different? It is also my understanding that SG didn't set the salaries, but that JW did. Yes, JW has to get approval from the BOV, but he has the clout to influence their decision.

I understand I've made some assumptions (that I believe to be correct), but this is why I beleive JW shares the responsibility for the timing of SG's termination. Leaving out SG's role does not mean he doesn't also share responsibility.

So feel free to let me know where I have erred.

You are on the right track, but why is it not fair to say JW is totallyresponsible for the situation? Its his job to manage potential issues within the sports programs that involve coaching "issues" and if he doesn't take action in the appropriate time frame who else is going to? Seth's not going to fire himself.

Word of caution. Don't rely on what the people involved in the situation are saying to the media because rarely do they reveal the entire truth. Look to the core and the root causes of the situation and rely on your instincts about what should have been done by those whose actions could have an impact.

[NC Hoke]

Because he was giving Seth the benefit of the doubt up to the point where, yet again, his assistants fled the program.

When you invest the resources of the bball program in a coach, you aren't going to fire him after the first or second setback, especially when there are plausible reasons for the setbacks; however, when you reach the point, as Seth did, that these setbacks are repeated for a 3rd time, an employer must consider the common denominator.

Here, Seth lost all of his assistants, yet again. There, simply was no reason for Weaver to give him another chance.

And that drove the timing.

Giving him the benefit of the doubt over what? That he lacked interpersonal skills? I have to disagree with you on that one. A proactive AD who's on top of and looking after the best interests of his program who had a coach with such shortcomings would have taken action well before all the assistants bolted. Seth had been losing assistants for several years. Its a little late to show up with the fire hose after the house has already burned down. This was a case of outright incompetence.

[wthornto]

With what he had in players (and building) and as competitive as the team has been since the Big East and getting into the ACC...I thought Seth was the best coach in the ACC!