For a little perspective...

[GCHokie34]

I have worked for the past 2 years at a mid-major school in the Midwest with one conference tournament championship (and NCAA berth) and a regular season conference championship

our DOBO (Dir. of Basketball Ops.) made $12-$15k more than what Adrian Autry made as a DOBO at VT, and our top assistant isn't too far off from the 2nd and third assistants at VT now.

all of this relates back to the argument that has been presented many times on this and other Virginia Tech message boards...the argument that there are distinct disadvantages on the basketball program at VT

myself and many others have talked about VT's geographical disadvantage, and that came to light when Hokiehaven caught up with VT target, Darrell Johnson, who talked about VT's distance from the closest airport (read as: urban environment)

"I was surprised how far they were from the airport," he said. "That was the most surprising thing. They were really far and it took two flights since they are a smaller airport."

these are facts...VT's location hurts them when recruiting in basketball...basketball is a much more urban game than football, it is a lot easier to get football kids to come to a rural environment than it is for basketball...that's why VT can pull some of the top notch talent in their recruiting classes in football, but basketball can't make the same strides

Also a factor in football's success on the recruiting trail is the commitment from the athletic department to the program...before Greenberg, basketball just got the scraps of whatever was left, but Greenberg fought to get a state-of-the-art basketball facility on campus to help in recruiting and recruiting alone...the next step will be coming up with money to retain good assistants as well as attract more talented assistants to an ACC program with some potential with the right amount of commitment

As fans, the best thing you can do is try to facilitate the commitment...urge Weaver to spend more money in basketball, or better yet, write a check! If you want VT to take the next step, don't lament on getting a new coach who will come in with the same restrictions, change the restrictions themselves (the ones you can change anyway, Blacksburg will never be located in Richmond)...

You want Shaka Smart, Greg Marshall, John Groce (vomit)? Find the wealthiest people you know to significantly raise the commitment level of the athletic department to the program...one of the things about the business of college coaching that many people don't realize is that coaches socialize with one another...a lot...especially in college basketball...it's a prerequisite to finding a job, you have to know people...and in doing that, coaches talk...and the word on the street is that Blacksburg is an extremely tough place to win consistently because of the factors I've discussed

1) Location
2) Mid-major commitment in a BCS conference
3) A fan base with high expectations and mediocre commitment to fill the stands

all three of those problems belong to the chicken-egg dilemma...some fans can't come to games because of Blacksburg's location...VT's commitment to filling the stands with locals has been mid-majoresque...the low fan turnout makes it hard for the athletic department to justify pumping more money into the program...the problems feed into themselves

a new coach, or even new assistants, aren't going to change those problems...so VT needs to fix what they can...the athletic department needs to have a renewed commitment to the program...fans needs to allow the athletic department to justify this commitment by stepping it up in donations and/or attendance...also, have some realization about what this program is, where it has been, and where it can go...should VT have made more than 1 NCAA Tournament in 9 years? I think yes, yes it should...but don't discount that VT was on the bubble a couple times and it could have very easily have gone in their favor

if at that point, VT needs a change in leadership, it will be much easier to attract better names to the program, because then, the only disadvantage will be the location...

[vtgreg]

I have worked for the past 2 years at a mid-major school in the Midwest with one conference tournament championship (and NCAA berth) and a regular season conference championship

our DOBO (Dir. of Basketball Ops.) made $12-$15k more than what Adrian Autry made as a DOBO at VT, and our top assistant isn't too far off from the 2nd and third assistants at VT now.

all of this relates back to the argument that has been presented many times on this and other Virginia Tech message boards...the argument that there are distinct disadvantages on the basketball program at VT

myself and many others have talked about VT's geographical disadvantage, and that came to light when Hokiehaven caught up with VT target, Darrell Johnson, who talked about VT's distance from the closest airport (read as: urban environment)

"I was surprised how far they were from the airport," he said. "That was the most surprising thing. They were really far and it took two flights since they are a smaller airport."

these are facts...VT's location hurts them when recruiting in basketball...basketball is a much more urban game than football, it is a lot easier to get football kids to come to a rural environment than it is for basketball...that's why VT can pull some of the top notch talent in their recruiting classes in football, but basketball can't make the same strides

Also a factor in football's success on the recruiting trail is the commitment from the athletic department to the program...before Greenberg, basketball just got the scraps of whatever was left, but Greenberg fought to get a state-of-the-art basketball facility on campus to help in recruiting and recruiting alone...the next step will be coming up with money to retain good assistants as well as attract more talented assistants to an ACC program with some potential with the right amount of commitment

As fans, the best thing you can do is try to facilitate the commitment...urge Weaver to spend more money in basketball, or better yet, write a check! If you want VT to take the next step, don't lament on getting a new coach who will come in with the same restrictions, change the restrictions themselves (the ones you can change anyway, Blacksburg will never be located in Richmond)...

You want Shaka Smart, Greg Marshall, John Groce (vomit)? Find the wealthiest people you know to significantly raise the commitment level of the athletic department to the program...one of the things about the business of college coaching that many people don't realize is that coaches socialize with one another...a lot...especially in college basketball...it's a prerequisite to finding a job, you have to know people...and in doing that, coaches talk...and the word on the street is that Blacksburg is an extremely tough place to win consistently because of the factors I've discussed

1) Location
2) Mid-major commitment in a BCS conference
3) A fan base with high expectations and mediocre commitment to fill the stands

all three of those problems belong to the chicken-egg dilemma...some fans can't come to games because of Blacksburg's location...VT's commitment to filling the stands with locals has been mid-majoresque...the low fan turnout makes it hard for the athletic department to justify pumping more money into the program...the problems feed into themselves

a new coach, or even new assistants, aren't going to change those problems...so VT needs to fix what they can...the athletic department needs to have a renewed commitment to the program...fans needs to allow the athletic department to justify this commitment by stepping it up in donations and/or attendance...also, have some realization about what this program is, where it has been, and where it can go...should VT have made more than 1 NCAA Tournament in 9 years? I think yes, yes it should...but don't discount that VT was on the bubble a couple times and it could have very easily have gone in their favor

if at that point, VT needs a change in leadership, it will be much easier to attract better names to the program, because then, the only disadvantage will be the location...

I don't disagree that VT has challenges with regards to basketball. However, so do Kansas St and WVU and they have been fairly successful over the last 5 years. People don't want to go watch an average product. It costs money and takes a fair amount of time and there is plenty in this day and age to occupy our time. It isn't so much, if you build it they will come as it is, if you win they will come. VT basketball needs a shot in the arm. .500 finishes in the ACC are great but in the end fans want to see their team in the NCAA tournament.

[GCHokie34]

Kansas State is only like VT in location, not their commitment to the program. Kansas State ponied out big money to hire Bob Huggins. Kansas State's top assistant, Chris Lowery, just signed on to the staff for $210,000...double the amount James Johnson initially got.

Regardless, Huggins used Kansas State as a stepping stone to WVU, his alma mater...and Frank Martin essentially pleaded to get out of town and begged anyone who would listen to take him away. And he did so for the exact same problems that VT has right now. Not enough commitment to the program, hard location, etc.

Is that what you envision for this program? A stepping stone for some other school? Schools like VT, WVU, Kansas State, etc. arguably need MORE commitment than other urban schools in order to overcome their inherent difficulities they cannot change.

West Virginia has gotten lucky in that one of the better coaches in college basketball just so happens to be an alum. They also have a greater commitment to their program than VT does.

WVU has a 14,000 seat arena...they just built a $20 million practice facility...they have paid their assistants well enough to keep each of them since 2007 (the year Huggins came back to WVU)...and of course theyve ponied up $1.5 million in base salary to keep Huggins in Morgantown

[vtgreg]

Kansas State is only like VT in location, not their commitment to the program. Kansas State ponied out big money to hire Bob Huggins. Kansas State's top assistant, Chris Lowery, just signed on to the staff for $210,000...double the amount James Johnson initially got.

Regardless, Huggins used Kansas State as a stepping stone to WVU, his alma mater...and Frank Martin essentially pleaded to get out of town and begged anyone who would listen to take him away. And he did so for the exact same problems that VT has right now. Not enough commitment to the program, hard location, etc.

Is that what you envision for this program? A stepping stone for some other school? Schools like VT, WVU, Kansas State, etc. arguably need MORE commitment than other urban schools in order to overcome their inherent difficulities they cannot change.

West Virginia has gotten lucky in that one of the better coaches in college basketball just so happens to be an alum. They also have a greater commitment to their program than VT does.

WVU has a 14,000 seat arena...they just built a $20 million practice facility...they have paid their assistants well enough to keep each of them since 2007 (the year Huggins came back to WVU)...and of course theyve ponied up $1.5 million in base salary to keep Huggins in Morgantown

My point is that location isn't a limiting factor if you are committed to the program. If the AD (and by default the fans) are willing to pony up the money for quality coaches, perks and facilities, we can have a program that is successful on a national scale. I agree that many programs, based on geography, need more commitment to the program to achieve the same level of success. It just depends on if basketball is important to the VT administration and its alumni and fans.

[GCHokie34]

My point is that location isn't a limiting factor if you are committed to the program. If the AD (and by default the fans) are willing to pony up the money for quality coaches, perks and facilities, we can have a program that is successful on a national scale. I agree that many programs, based on geography, need more commitment to the program to achieve the same level of success. It just depends on if basketball is important to the VT administration and its alumni and fans.

I would agree with that 100%...with a greater commitment to the program, location can be overcome

[Hubman]

1) Location
2) Mid-major commitment in a BCS conference
3) A fan base with high expectations and mediocre commitment to fill the stands

all three of those problems belong to the chicken-egg dilemma...some fans can't come to games because of Blacksburg's location...VT's commitment to filling the stands with locals has been mid-majoresque...the low fan turnout makes it hard for the athletic department to justify pumping more money into the program...the problems feed into themselves

a new coach, or even new assistants, aren't going to change those problems...so VT needs to fix what they can...the athletic department needs to have a renewed commitment to the program...fans needs to allow the athletic department to justify this commitment by stepping it up in donations and/or attendance...also, have some realization about what this program is, where it has been, and where it can go...should VT have made more than 1 NCAA Tournament in 9 years? I think yes, yes it should...but don't discount that VT was on the bubble a couple times and it could have very easily have gone in their favor

if at that point, VT needs a change in leadership, it will be much easier to attract better names to the program, because then, the only disadvantage will be the location...

So, VT is located in a place that will never allow it to compete in basketball. Also, the athletic department does not value the basketball program enough to treat it like a BCS program should be treated.......

The answer.......the fans need to lower their expectations and donate more money to the program?

If we were on the show "Shark Tank", I don't think I would be investing in your pitch........

[GCHokie34]

So, VT is located in a place that will never allow it to compete in basketball. Also, the athletic department does not value the basketball program enough to treat it like a BCS program should be treated.......

The answer.......the fans need to lower their expectations and donate more money to the program?

If we were on the show "Shark Tank", I don't think I would be investing in your pitch........

that's not a valid analogy...

I'm not "selling" you a new product, it's a product you've already bought...you're coming to this message board and asking (demanding) changes to make the product better...I'm explaining what your product actually is, as opposed to what your perception of it is...I'm telling you, if you want changes in your product, the company (VT basketball) needs more capitol to make the investments necessary to do so...if you don't like that answer, there's not much I can do for you except tell you to enjoy your product as is, because management (VT athletic department) has only given so much rope to work with

does that jive with your analogy?

[Hamburger]

that's not a valid analogy...

I'm not "selling" you a new product, it's a product you've already bought...you're coming to this message board and asking (demanding) changes to make the product better...I'm explaining what your product actually is, as opposed to what your perception of it is...I'm telling you, if you want changes in your product, the company (VT basketball) needs more capitol to make the investments necessary to do so...if you don't like that answer, there's not much I can do for you except tell you to enjoy your product as is, because management (VT athletic department) has only given so much rope to work with

does that jive with your analogy?

Spot On.

[Groff]

that's not a valid analogy...

I'm not "selling" you a new product, it's a product you've already bought...you're coming to this message board and asking (demanding) changes to make the product better...I'm explaining what your product actually is, as opposed to what your perception of it is...I'm telling you, if you want changes in your product, the company (VT basketball) needs more capitol to make the investments necessary to do so...if you don't like that answer, there's not much I can do for you except tell you to enjoy your product as is, because management (VT athletic department) has only given so much rope to work with

does that jive with your analogy?

Generally, when investors feel that current management is under-performing with the capital invested already allotted to them, they will be reluctant to invest further. Management will *always* say that more money is what's holding back, and investors will tell them "perform at this level first before I drop more money on this."

At some point, you simply must start performing, and even considering all of the challenges, making the bubble a bunch of times doesn't cut it when you're only dancing once a decade.

I agree that there needs to be a bigger financial commitment to the Basketball program, but think that Weaver needs to figure out a different place for that money to come from in the short term. Show the fans that an increase in financial support will work and they'll pay. But with the economy the way it is and money being as tight as it is, you're going to have to deliver more than this program has over the last 10 years for "just give us more money and we'll start making the Dance, I promise!" to work.

[GCHokie34]

I think everyone agrees there needs to be a bigger commitment to the program...the only problem left is where that money comes from...fans won't come without results, results won't come without money, money won't come without fans...someone has to give or it will continue to spiral until it reaches a breaking point and the program is less desirable than it currently is...someone, whether that's Weaver or alumni/fans, needs to step up and break the cycle...if you don't wanna give to the program, cool, start a letter writing campaign to the athletic department demanding more support...if you buy season tickets and cant go, make sure *someone* gets those tickets and gets in that seat (and part of that responsibility falls on the athletic department too)

Greenberg has work to do on his part as well as I'm sure he is well aware...his backcourt needs help, he needs to fill positions with the right people, he needs to continue to develop the young talent and get more of a flow to the offense...everyone involved has some blame in where we are, and everyone involved can play a part in changing the direction...who will step up first?