In the past hour I've learned the following about Seth Greeneberg:

[HortHokie]

Has VT ever had a good fit? since 1980 I think Seth has been the best fit. The biggest problems Seth's teams have had is losing the lions share of close games.

[reestuart]

I'm glad you are Stacy Frederick's interpreter. Neat to hide behind a pseudonym. As far a yellers go Bud was in the "All World" class a few years ago. Ask TJ Jackson about a game against Pitt. Maybe we should talk about Charlie Wiles tweets? I remember CFB at WVU coming unglued. Seth is no wall flower but neither is BF, CW or even Saint Frank.

They also produce at a much higher clip. I'd bet their MO would wear thin after a bunch of 7-5 seasons.

[vtsupporter]

Has this what it has come to? I'm ashamed of this board.

I agree. These past two months are the most disappointed I have ever been as a Hokie fan. Generally I believe we have one of the most reasonable, rational fan bases in the country, with a good perspective on what is important in college sports. But these attacks on Coach Greenberg have changed my mind.

Here we have a coach who has completely turned around a program that was in the crapper, beaten the best teams in the nation several times, and made us respectable in the best conference in the country, and many of our fans want to run him out on a rail because he is from New York and demonstrates "antics".

Here we are in the midst of a rebuilding season, with our best recruiting class ever, and a team that is still competitive (remember Wake Forest last year?), and all of a sudden he can't coach? Does anyone realize that it is his chip-on-a-shoulder mentality that allows him to recruit pretty good players here, who also happen to have the same "I'll show you" mentality (Delaney, Allen, Dowdell, etc.)? Has any other VT coach ever gotten better players to come to Blacksburg?

I'm sorry, but I think Coach Greenberg is the best thing that ever happened to Hokie sports. I guess if we can find a coach that can do a better job of attracting mostly inner city African-American kids to a small town in the Appalachians, with no night life, a small African-American population, and weak fan support, and do it without cheating, then by all means, lets go hire him. As our 'gurus' have pointed out many times, this is just not reality.

By the way, I'm amazed at how much smarter many of our posters are than those gurus, some of whom basically earn their living studying college basketball. I wonder how those dissenters would react if someone came into their workplace where they spend 50 hours a week becoming expert in their jobs and told them they were wrong. I suspect Cville and RevZeke have forgotten more about today's game than most of us ever knew.

I'm sure I didn't change anyone's opinion. But I think we will all rue the day the "fans" run Coach Greenberg out of town.[/QUOTE]

[vtsupporter]

sorry bstreet, just don't see it that way

Sports culture is not a university wide fit by definition. Correct?

That would presume that all (I'd count 5000 level and up and say) 30,000 odd kids play ball. What I'm typing about is the "family first" intra-Jameson Athletic Center (nearly wide) mentality. Which is what? Multi hundred VT kids?

It is a unique (sub)culture --to put it mildly.
You just do not see that "family first" mantra anywhere else in big-time D-1 sports. At least not to my knowledge.

VT does (again, mostly) enjoy a "kinder gentler" culture.
You kid is not a number there.
You kid is not a piece of meat to be ground in hamburger there.
You kid is taken care of to the n^th degree if injured.
Look at the number of blown A.C.L.'s we inked in football in the recent 2-4 classes.
That's amazing. Who else does that? Most of those offers get rescinded.

And yet, there is just something about Seth's countenance that is counterculture in O&M terms.
I can get that he wants to escape Frank's long casting shadow and carve his own niche.
Though why does he continue to alienate so many people?
How is being that superfluously heterogeneous homogenous by nature?

Seth may not even intend it -for that matter, I could almost buy that he may not even be aware of it- though that's just not the long established norm as the VT A.D. sports culture goes. Kinda like he's his own worst enemy or the truly rare kid that you have to tell her/him to stop trying so damn hard --and just let the game come to them. I think he has figured just a bit of that out this year in particular. We shall see if he figured it out in time soon enough.

out-
b-st.

[RapmasterAC]

So glad I wasn't on the boards this afternoon, I might've had an aneurysm...

[vtsupporter]

agreed, what is going on here

Don't get the "ceiling" thing either. Just brought in best VT class, EVER, and these guys just need some time. Chris's article says recruiting is the key. Well, it seems as though it's on a serious upswing. I'm convinced that some screen names have been hi-jacked by hoos... this board has some stuff bordering on TOS violations

[beedubyah]

Courtesy of Synaesthesia: "Maybe Greenberg's a real miser around Blacksburg; that's a trait that's neither here nor there when it comes to basketball"

Completely deployable- I hope you say that to Seth's face

and Courtesy of Bourbonstreet Seth has a "yelly screamy NYC attitude"

Has this what it has come to? I'm ashamed of this board.

It's gotten bad lately. Part of what makes this site so great is the stability from the top down. Rarely over-reactionary. Unless its a big win or game that requires a positive riling of the fan base.

Now we see multiple pieces that seem dead set on establishing an overarching decade-long narrative on the heels of a rebuilding year. I like the content here because its more Grantland than Jim Rome. It provides contextual analysis and reason over emotion.

Id hate to see that change.

[vtsupporter]

thank you, I would love for the team to finish strong this season and kill all the negativity. I am going against the grain and rooting for wins going forward.

So, to sum up, we've got a yelly screamy NYC guy who is a miser, is hated by everyone in his department, doesn't fit the code word 'culture', was born in the wrong place, alienates his team, screams in practices that are closed to the outside public, and I'm sure I'm forgetting other unsubstantiated slanders.

Anyway, this guy has been named ACC Coach of the Year twice, has led VT to the fifth most wins in the ACC since inclusion beginning this season, has produced more 10-win ACC seasons than losing ACC seasons. His teams have beaten #1 nationally ranked teams home and away. He's beaten Duke and UNC home and away. Multiple times. He's produced the most wins in the last four years of any four years in the school's history. His players graduate, they stay out of trouble virtually all the time, but when they don't, they are disciplined quickly, regardless of upcoming game schedule. He's brought national sporting attention to the school in a positive manner.

But, hey, that yelly screamy NYC thing, that miser tag, the 'hated' labels, those are what really appeal to his staff, his team, and his recruits when they're visiting this web site. Why? Because they're what are repeated without substantiation.

Oh yeah, when these folks do succeed in running off Greenberg, you think they'll understand why no other good coach wants to enter this atmosphere?

[VPI63]

Courtesy of Synaesthesia: "Maybe Greenberg's a real miser around Blacksburg; that's a trait that's neither here nor there when it comes to basketball"

Completely deployable- I hope you say that to Seth's face

and Courtesy of Bourbonstreet Seth has a "yelly screamy NYC attitude"

Has this what it has come to? I'm ashamed of this board.

Even if these characterizations were true, which I do not subscribe to, CSG does have a self-limiting problem in that he sees himselve as a victim, which translates to the overall team mindset.

You may win a few big games with the "chip on the shoulder" mindset, but a a player can not see himself both as a victim and a winner at the same time.

This explains why we have managed a few big wins with CSG only to flame out with a truely underpar peformance against teams that we should beat. E.g., BC on senior night last year after beating Duke, blowing a NCAAT bid.

Also, CSG has shown a tin ear when it comes to the politics surrounding the selection committee. His certifiably insane statement ensures that all things being equal, VT will not get a break from that group. Not being selected by the selection committee feeds right back into the victim mindset where CSG seems the most comfortable.

Lastly, his past habit of riding the refs way too hard (a further manisfestation of a victim mindset) has rubbed off on both the refs, our players, TV announcers and our fans. The latter 2 points have not been a positive for the image of our university and have contributed to our lack of success in post season play in the NCAAT.

As I have stated before, none of this makes him a bad coach, but it explains why his upside is limited, which is substantiated by his lifetime record.

I would hope that none of what I have said is construed as a CSG "hater", but if so, so be it.

[RapmasterAC]

Even if these characterizations were true, which I do not subscribe to, CSG does have a self-limiting problem in that he sees himselve as a victim, which translates to the overall team mindset.

You may win a few big games with the "chip on the shoulder" mindset, but a a player can not see himself both as a victim and a winner at the same time.

This explains why we have managed a few big wins with CSG only to flame out with a truely underpar peformance against teams that we should beat. E.g., BC on senior night last year after beating Duke, blowing a NCAAT bid.

Also, CSG has shown a tin ear when it comes to the politics surrounding the selection committee. His certifiably insane statement ensures that all things being equal, VT will not get a break from that group. Not being selected by the selection committee feeds right back into the victim mindset where CSG seems the most comfortable.

Lastly, his past habit of riding the refs way too hard (a further manisfestation of a victim mindset) has rubbed off on both the refs, our players, TV announcers and our fans. The latter 2 points have not been a positive for the image of our university and have contributed to our lack of success in post season play in the NCAAT.

As I have stated before, none of this makes him a bad coach, but it explains why his upside is limited, which is substantiated by his lifetime record.

I would hope that none of what I have said is construed as a CSG "hater", but if so, so be it.

It's funny you say this, because most times I hear him speak after setbacks like injuries, etc., he always says the exact opposite of that. The guy has faced some serious adversity during his time here, but he's always said they're not going to make excuses for themselves.

When we got snubbed last year, what was his response? He said that the NCAA committee could not take away the accomplishments of his group of kids. That's not a victim, that's someone being proud and defiant. That's a hard-edge, chip-on-shoulder mentality that his best teams have always displayed.