Here is a fact (for a change) and opinion about the Seth Greenberg tenure

[nc_hokie87]

So the fans is what is causing the players to play poorly? Okay.

So why did Finney-Smith play well yesterday, I mean our fan support yesterday was mediocre...

The team is playing poorly, making poor passes at times, missing wide open shots, turning the ball over, etc. and that has nothing to do with the fans.

DFS played well because in part, he is becoming more confident each game. Confidence is important. And the fans don't "cause the players to play poorly" (what is it with anti-seth posters putting words in my mouth?)... but they are capable of giving the players confidence through their unwavering support.

Right now, they are receiving the opposite. Little support at games, lots of criticism even after wins.

[Chris Coleman]

Zabian Dowdell played in the NBA and Deron Washington was drafted. The Hokies have also had a bunch of All-ACC players in Seth's tenure. I am not buying this post at all.

Check the article on the homepage. It sheds some good light into the teams with and without NBA players, and the teams who do/don't make the NCAA Tournament.

[BROman Hokie]

IMO part of that is that SG values athleticism over skills, which I kinda understand b/c it's one sure fire way to close the gap b/w us & the ACC big boys. But, his teams have reflected that of athletic, unskilled team- good D, good transition team, and not worth a crap w/ the ball in the half court. Basketball players produce in the half court, and I don't think we've had enough of them- I'd say we've had 5 total since SG has been here(Opie, Zabe, Jamon, Delaney, Allen). We're kind of like USA men's soccer- can match up w/ anybody in terms of pace and stamina, but most of the players aren't skillful enough to put pressure on defenses consistently.

[133743Hokie]

This has always been my point about the current state of VT hoops under SG. So it begs the following questions...can he go further than he has recruiting the same type players? Can he recruit more well rounded players and go further?

[cush13]

0 for 61- that is a fact.

so by your definition, lets use Mike Scott as an example this year. If he doesn't get drafted, which is possible, and is the ACC POY, which is also very possible, that would mean he doesn't count as talent, cause he isn't on an NBA Roster. Or Sean Singletary, he was 1st team All-ACC 3 years in a row, but not on a current NBA roster, so again, no talent.

[TomTurkey]

Not arguing that point. But what is the debate, then? SG, VT, ACC, all the above, none of the above?

[Gobbler Guru]

+1. And to add to your point...This team clearly lacks confidence... and I blame that as much on (parts of) the VT fan base as SG. They need the support of the fans, not hatred and name-calling. They need fans to show up for games and be loud. Not say they are an embarrassment, don't try hard, don't care, don't have any talent, don't have a good coach, etc. Hell, the one time (we know of) where SG worked specifically one on one with DFS on his shooting and confidence.... DFS comes out and is more or less on a tear (compared to his production before) ever since. SG is doing what he can to help the team with confidence Im sure, but nothing he can say or do helps more than having the vocal support of the fan base, especially at games. A good chunk of our fan base has done the opposite.... hate hate hate hate hate, even after a win (a win that, given how it ended and who "won" the game for us, could have given this team a ton of confidence heading forward. hopefully they can gain that confidence and ignore the negativity a lot of our fans are pushing into the program)

First, I am sick of this talk of "hate". I have yet to see anyone express "hate" in the true sense of that word toward any member of the VT basketball program. "Hating" and "haters" are two of the most overblown pop culture expressions to infiltrate sports talk in recent years.

Second, which came first? Poor performance by the program, or a negative vibe from the fans? And if these players and coaches can't stand criticism after a season like this one, I would question whether they are cut out for D-1 hoops. It's a big time business, the coaches are paid big time money, the players get a ton of perks and adulation when they win, and taking a few darts is to be expected when they lose consistently (and look lethargic while doing so).

I haven't seen much sign that any of our players and coaches are that thin-skinned. What I have seen is a sizable contingent of fans on this board with an "America- love it or leave it" attitude toward the VT hoops program.

[TomTurkey]

To be fair, MD pouted his way through 4 years in some persons' minds.

[hokienole]

And no it doesnt involve supposed "antics",or personality flaws.

At the beginning of the NBA roster there were 61 ACC players on NBA rosters as follows:

1) Duke 16
2) UNC 12
3) GT 7
3) WF 7
5)FSU 5
6) BC 4
6)MD 4
8) Miami 2
8) NCSU 2
10) Clemson 1
10) UVa 1
12) VT- ZERO

And here are the historic NCAA appearances by school:

1) UNC 42
2) Duke 35
3) MD 23
4) WF 22
5) NCSU 20
6) BC 18
7) UVa 16
7) GT 16
9) FSU 13
10) Clemson 10
11) VT 8
12) Miami 6

Those are facts and here is the opinion. Despite have arguably the least talent in the ACC during his tenure and despite coaching at a school among the least in basketball tradition Seth Greenberg has somehow managed to have an overall conference record of approximately .500 in the ACC. He has done and continue to do a damn fine job.

nd unless you have a degree in psychology and have day to day access to the team please please avoid stating "facts" on how Coach Greenberg's "personality" has negatively impacted our program.

The flip side is he's had 9 yrs to change some of this awful status quo....and he hasn't at all.

[GMSAHokie]

During SG's time at VT he has actually had a lot of talent. Not on the level of Duke or UNC, but Dowdell, Gordan, ADV, Washington, Allen, Delaney, Bell, Hudson, Green. Those are all players that have ALL-ACC talent. Many of them played on the same teams. I would say VT has been one of the 6 most talented teams in the ACC during his time.

I don't know about being one of the 6 most talented teams in the ACC. If that were the case, it would seem that VT would have at least one player stick in the NBA during that period. The closest we have come is Zabian Dowdell and Deron Washington. I actually thought Delaney had a chance of developing into an NBA player after his Sophomore season but he just didn't improve enough offensively.

Anyway, I think the original poster was spot on when he said that Greenberg has done more with less than any coach in the ACC over the past 8 years.