You can't have this combination linear/thread mode

[hokienomics]

It's impossible to tell who's replying to what in linear mode. It's causing confusion and it might as well not be there. I have used other vbulletin boards and I like linear better, but it's got to be one or the other.

[Will Stewart]

It's impossible to tell who's replying to what in linear mode. It's causing confusion and it might as well not be there. I have used other vbulletin boards and I like linear better, but it's got to be one or the other.

You also can't unceremoniously dump an entire threaded userbase into topic/linear mode.

If you've been watching the discourse, it is quickly apparent that a large portion of our userbase has never seen a vBulletin board in their lives. TSL's old threaded board is the only board they ever used or visited with any regularity. To bodyslam them into a topic/linear format would have made the adjustment even more difficult than it has been for many. This way, they can continue to see the board in threaded mode, while learning their way around vBulletin ... including learning to use "Reply With Quote."

By the way, going strictly topic/linear wouldn't make you any more able to tell who's replying to whom, anyway. Many users would do what they're doing now -- pick a post in the middle of a linear thread, hit reply (not reply with quote), and the end result would be the same: a new post at the end of a thread referencing who-knows-what previous post. "Reply With Quote" is necessary whether people are using threaded mode or not, unless I'm missing something. (I'm new to this format, too.)

[hokienomics]

Well, I disagree, I think the normal vbulletin format is pretty intuitive and people would have figured it out more quickly if you made the transition 100%. Like ripping off a bandaid. Regardless, the issue still exists- if you have people replying in threaded mode, the linear mode is worthless because it's impossible to follow.

[Synaesthesia]

a large portion of our userbase has never seen a vBulletin board in their lives.

Even so, there really is no reason why they can't figure out how to use it properly. http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php These are the forums of the Flat Earth Society. These are people who truly, honestly believe that the world is not a spheroid, and that any information to the contrary, even simple geometry, is a trick/conspiracy/whatever. As stupid as their forum users are, they can still figure out how to navigate and use a forum organized in a vBulletin-like structure. I simply cannot believe that people who are fans of Virginia Tech sports, many of whom graduated from Virginia Tech, cannot figure out how to use a particular forum when the Flat Earth Society can.

If I were giving The Sabre advice, I would tell them to not dance around the issue--when the time comes to switch, the default mode is linear, and then have a separate set of instructions for people who want to try to emulate (not replicate) the look of the old set of boards. When TechSideline switched over, it took me all of 5 minutes to identify what I didn't like, and change the settings into something I did. I've never used a vBulletin board before (almost all the forums I actively visit use phpBB or something), but that didn't stop me from being able to figure it out (I'm not some master Ruby on Rails programmer, either). It seems strange that people who, on this single website, have accumulated thousands, even tens of thousands of posts, want everyone else to believe that they're on a computer so infrequently that they can't handle a little bit of change.

[avhokie]

Even so, there really is no reason why they can't figure out how to use it properly. http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php These are the forums of the Flat Earth Society. These are people who truly, honestly believe that the world is not a spheroid, and that any information to the contrary, even simple geometry, is a trick/conspiracy/whatever. As stupid as their forum users are, they can still figure out how to navigate and use a forum organized in a vBulletin-like structure. I simply cannot believe that people who are fans of Virginia Tech sports, many of whom graduated from Virginia Tech, cannot figure out how to use a particular forum when the Flat Earth Society can.

LOL, this should be stickied!

[DeBord]

Even so, there really is no reason why they can't figure out how to use it properly. http://www.theflatearthsociety.org/forum/index.php These are the forums of the Flat Earth Society. These are people who truly, honestly believe that the world is not a spheroid, and that any information to the contrary, even simple geometry, is a trick/conspiracy/whatever. As stupid as their forum users are, they can still figure out how to navigate and use a forum organized in a vBulletin-like structure. I simply cannot believe that people who are fans of Virginia Tech sports, many of whom graduated from Virginia Tech, cannot figure out how to use a particular forum when the Flat Earth Society can.

If I were giving The Sabre advice, I would tell them to not dance around the issue--when the time comes to switch, the default mode is linear, and then have a separate set of instructions for people who want to try to emulate (not replicate) the look of the old set of boards. When TechSideline switched over, it took me all of 5 minutes to identify what I didn't like, and change the settings into something I did. I've never used a vBulletin board before (almost all the forums I actively visit use phpBB or something), but that didn't stop me from being able to figure it out (I'm not some master Ruby on Rails programmer, either). It seems strange that people who, on this single website, have accumulated thousands, even tens of thousands of posts, want everyone else to believe that they're on a computer so infrequently that they can't handle a little bit of change.

I don't know what else to say except that I love this post.

[GCHokie78]

This way, they can continue to see the board in threaded mode, while learning their way around vBulletin ... including learning to use "Reply With Quote."

"Reply With Quote" is necessary whether people are using threaded mode or not, unless I'm missing something. (I'm new to this format, too.)

I must be missing something myself, but if "Reply with Quote" was necessary when using threaded mode, wouldn't people be using it? People in topic/linear will tend to use it because they know if they don't, other people using that mode won't know what they're talking about. Folks using threaded mode don't need to see a quote to follow the conversation, so they're less likely to bother using it.

[Will Stewart]

I must be missing something myself, but if "Reply with Quote" was necessary when using threaded mode, wouldn't people be using it? People in topic/linear will tend to use it because they know if they don't, other people using that mode won't know what they're talking about. Folks using threaded mode don't need to see a quote to follow the conversation, so they're less likely to bother using it.

I botched that up. What I said was:

By the way, going strictly topic/linear wouldn't make you any more able to tell who's replying to whom, anyway. Many users would do what they're doing now -- pick a post in the middle of a linear thread, hit reply (not reply with quote), and the end result would be the same: a new post at the end of a thread referencing who-knows-what previous post. "Reply With Quote" is necessary whether people are using threaded mode or not, unless I'm missing something. (I'm new to this format, too.)

A couple days later, I'm not even sure what I meant by that.

hokienomics said, "It's impossible to tell who's replying to what in linear mode." The point I was trying to make is that the confusion isn't caused by the combination linear/threaded modes being used -- it's because people aren't using "Reply with quote". hokienomics suggested that making everyone go linear would remove the confusion. I was saying, no, going linear wouldn't eliminate the confusion, because people still wouldn't use "Reply with quote." They would pick out a post in the middle of a thread, Hit Reply, and tack a post on the end of the thread with no context.

[GCHokie78]

The point I was trying to make is that the confusion isn't caused by the combination linear/threaded modes being used -- it's because people aren't using "Reply with quote". hokienomics suggested that making everyone go linear would remove the confusion. I was saying, no, going linear wouldn't eliminate the confusion, because people still wouldn't use "Reply with quote." They would pick out a post in the middle of a thread, Hit Reply, and tack a post on the end of the thread with no context.

I would say, then, that if people in linear view won't use the quote feature, you have no chance whatsoever of getting people in threaded to use it.

[VTGolfer]

While reply with quote is definitely part of the problem, it's only half of it. The other problem is that people using linear mode (classic VBulletin) are expecting there to be fewer threads/topics that are repeatedly "bumped" as messages are added. It is expected that these threads will last for days, weeks, even years of in depth discussion. People using the threaded (old TSL) views are expecting a more fleeting conversational style. They expect to create (or see created) 10 threads for the same topic. They expect to only see posts from the past hour. It's an entirely different mindset. People with the threaded view are sometimes posting things like "where, I don't see that post. Where is that message" They are posting this because it's scrolled off the front page in their view, whereas linear posters are continuing a conversation. Conversely, linear posters are being frustrated that the "good" threads are continue to compete with other less interesting threads because threaded posters instinct is to just create a new thread, thus splintering discussion.

IMO, this is the biggest issue. I can see how this can result in a sort of split / schizophrenic message board. It's probably not a problem right now during this slow time, but I'm real keen to see what falls out come signing day when the board activity really picks up.

I wonder what would happen if TSL had a thread that was JUST for links to external articles posted by Andy Bitter, Daily Press, etc. That would be a GREAT FANTASTIC change for linear users. It would be terrible for the threaded users.

Anyway, sorry for the long rambling post. At the end of the day I think the board will be better when there is one way that things are done. I personally prefer linear, but TSL was my favorite board in it's old format and would continue to be even if linear was disabled in lieu of threaded for all. Above all I'd just like to a have a cohesive board.