I’m throwing this out there as a free blog, because I think it contains information that people need to know. The dirty little secret of the basketball program is that it doesn’t receive enough support from the athletic department.
Seth Greenberg has had a lot of assistant coaches leave the program recently, and plenty of theories have been thrown out as to why. Each guy is his own unique story, but there is one number we can look at: coaching salary. I’m not going to throw a lot of numbers and information at you, but it will be enlightening.
Ryan Odom: Odom makes $120,000 per year at Charlotte. He made $110,000 per year in his last three seasons at Virginia Tech.
Stacey Palmore: Palmore makes $160,000 at Georgia. He made $106,000 his last two years at Tech. Before that, he made under $100,000.
Adrian Autry: Married with four kids, Autry made $47,000 per year for two years as Tech’s Director of Basketball Operations. As a full-time assistant in his final year, he made a paltry $95,000. He’s at Syracuse now, but originally left Tech for Dayton. Both schools are private schools, so I couldn’t find any salary information, but you can bet he originally left Tech for more money.
James Johnson: Johnson is Tech’s #1 assistant coach, and he made $135,000 in 2010-11. Before that, he was making just $110,000. That’s a nice raise, but UVA’s #2 and #3 assistants both make $150,000, while their #1 guy makes $160,000. Yep…UVA’s #2 and #3 guys make more than Virginia Tech’s #1 guy.
The amount of money that Virginia Tech offers assistant coaches makes it very difficult for them to compete against other schools. Tech’s lack of financial commitment to assistants means that Seth Greenberg can’t pursue his top targets most of the time. It also means that when the Hokies do get a good assistant coach on the staff, it’s only a matter of time before they leave for more money.
You can’t blame Stacey Palmore and Adrian Autry for leaving Tech. They are making a lot more money now. Ryan Odom is not making a huge about more, but he is making more. It’s a problem when mid-majors such as Dayton and Charlotte are paying more than Tech. It’s also a big problem when an ACC competitor such as UVA is completely blowing your salaries out of the water.
Update: reports indicate that Virginia Tech’s assistant coaches will now be paid the same as Clemson’s assistant coaches, following the news that Tech top assistant James Johnson is leaving for Clemson. Jim Weaver made the request to Charles Steger, who approved.
STOP!!!! Quit saying Tech is not committed to Hops. Its Tech fans and alums are not committed. Period. Tech lags in fund raising and attendance in hoops. Its no one’s fault but our own. Its not like Weaver is putting money in his pockets instead of Hoops. Forget it…..write checks or shut up!
This is an outstanding article from Chris Coleman – I’m glad he’s willing to say this.
I contribute a good 5% of my salary to VT, I’m a season ticket holder in football and men’s basketball, and if my seats aren’t full with me, I make sure that other Hokies are in my seats.
Chris Coleman should be commended for saying this.
Another outstanding article from Chris Coleman. Nice work, bro – you’ve nailed the status of our program in two very good articles. This is why I subscribe to this site.
Well Chris is correct on many levels of this subject. There are more than just salary issues going on in our basketball program. Its easy to see that in this economy that is an issue.
We are an OK team that is not considered a contender most years and with job security based on wins, it is better to go for the money with a team that pays for it. The inconsistency of our teams play has been in the spot light for many years. Coaches joining and leaving is a cause for that but not the sole reason…..
Other issues are causing unrest between all areas of coaching in the basketball department. A lot of that has to do with some inside issue we publicly do not see but from the looks of things on the outside it seemed like the team gave up this year. I am not saying that the players were giving up during games I believe no college athlete would ever “want” to lose.
However, seeing what articles come out about coaches leaving and rumors of internal conflict between coaching staff, players and athletic directors it seems that the teamwork and chemistry to play at their best is just not there. Sure we can beat any team but doing it consistently and holding a team together year to year is our biggest problem in my mind. Players come and go and we have to focus more on our coaching issues before we can get our players to be more consistent. Being involved as a player for most of my life has shown that constant coaching changes break a team down. VT prides itself on being a close family but I do not see it in our basketball program at all…….
The part of the equation that seems to be missing here is are these assistance worth more than they are being paid? Most of the examples you cite are fairly small increases, so no one is paying primo dollars for the guys that are leaving. Given the results of the last 4 years, I would question whether paying them more to stay would be a wise investment. 5 years ago we had a recruiting class that was considered to be fantastic. Their first year they went to the NCAA tourney and lost to a decent mid-major, that they probably should have beaten….but they were young and would get better. Did they? I don’t think so.
The next 3 years continued a trend of losing to mediocre teams, close losses to good teams with a single big upset thrown in and early exists from the ACC tourney after decent finishes in the regular season. Each resulting in being on the outside looking in at the NCAA followed by unspectacular performances in the NIT (want to make people believe you should have gone to the dance, win the NIT when you have the chance, not making to MSG once in those 3 years doesn’t make much of a case). Worse still, I saw none of the issues that led to those losses being improved. Poor FT shooting, offense failing at the end of close games, certain players continuing bonehead decision making, etc. In other words, no player development. You would hope that with a core of 3 or 4 seniors you would be better than when they were fr, but they did not seem to be.
We’ve all been spoiled by Beamer’s ability to maintain his staff and build a consistent quality program. But its not because they are paid well and stay, they are paid well and stay because they produce. If we are contending for an ACC title and going to the sweet 16 every year, absolutely, complain about nickle and diming assistant coaches. But lets not pretend Seth can recreate the Beamer model just by getting JW to open his checkbook.
I believe that there is an NCAA rule that forbids the Big Shots event from being held on the Virginia Tech campus. For several years, a large and very successful event was held at WVU’s rec center, which is a wonderful facility with multiple courts. It drew a lot of talent and a lot of recruiters. I recall listening to a tournament organizer on a sports radio broadcast here in West Virginia sometime during the past year explaining that the tournament had to be moved off campus to local high schools and middle schools because of some sort of NCAA red tape. I have the impression that there is a relatively new rule in place that prevents these sorts of events from being held on campus.
Here is a story regarding the prohibition against hoops tourneys on college campuses.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/bobcook/2011/12/09/ncaa-kicks-high-school-basketball-tournaments-off-its-campuses/
But the same event is being held in the Clemson arena and the VCU arena. That part doesn’t make sense.
Answer: those schools had contracts with the event before the NCAA rule came about. So they are allowed to have their events, but no new contracts can be signed.
Tech was forced to bring womens sports up to par, shouldn’t basketball be giving the same consideration. I think when you look at basketball since the mid to late 90′s there’s not a commentment on someone part. I can’t believe in todays time VT is not one of the best basketball schools around. I’m getting tired of reading about VCU all the time?
If it can be done in football – it can be done in basketball – it can be done in all sports – male and female.
Correct me if I’m wrong.
I’ve never heard Seth complain publicly about a lack of support for his assistants.
Never heard him place blame on anybody for a poor season.
If it’s true that he has never complained publicly, that shows me a lot of class on his part.
After reading this article, Seth is not totally responsible for the lack of progress in the basketball program.
He may not even be responsible at all. Sounds like Weaver is merely going thru the motions when it comes to basketball.
Seth has to compete for recruits against other ACC schools, then he has to compete with them on the court, and then he has to overcome poor support from his own athletic department.
Many may not believe this but there was a time in the 70′s when basketball was just as hot as football at tech. We actually used to sleep out next to Cassell to get ticks for louisville Memphis and UVA and most games were sold out. Golden age in 95/96, too bad many haven’t had a chance to see the Cassell rock regularly, it was a good time!
When Tech joined the ACC, I saw this as the perfect opportunity to improve in basketball as far as recruiting, wins, coaching, etc. I really expected more improvement in b-ball recruiting than football. I certainly do not know the ins and outs at Tech, but I am dissapointed in the improvement in b-ball. I like Greenberg, and VT has improved, but they still can not get the big recruits in VA.
The AD has done a great job! With his illness its time for him to retire. Despite some feeling that Football is the (do all for VT) I do not. Being as proud of VT as I am my feeling is we should have all sports on a high level. Its time for all our assitants to be in the top percentile of Coaches in the ACC. This should be the goal to make VT a school that is recognized across the country in most sports. At this point we are in need of improvement. Not alot but small to medium sums in most areas.
Give the football team what it wants, and give the rest of the sports enough money to get by. I’m guessing JW has done the math and realized that he’d get a lousy return on investment by investing more in the basketball team. Assuming that is the case (I imagine it is, but I really have no idea) let that money stay with the university, students, and fans rather than spending it on basketball. If spending that money could really turn VT into a basketball power with lots of fan support (and thus make it profitable) then go for it. I doubt it would though. Spending on athletics is a zero-sum game. Sometimes its best to just do what you do best (football) and let everyone else blow their money trying to win basketball games.
God bless his heart, Jim Weaver has done an excellent job over the years as AD. One of the biggies for me is running the program in the black, which is an anomaly in the College athletics world. JW has more pluses than minuses on his ledger.
But the minuses are starting to hurt more. I don’t think JW doesn’t care (double negative?) about VT basketball. I think with Parkinson’s, back ailments, et.al., waning years, he just doesn’t have the time, or energy , or desire to do anything about it anymore.
This is why it is time for him to retire and get the youthful, energetic, visionary AD that is needed for Virginia Tech NOW–not six months or two years from now.
I don’t blame Seth at all. He has been good for Tech, and is the face for VT where Basketball is concerned. Known well in the region and around the country. Maybe he could have been more successful with some more administrative support. The program is on a plateau now when we need to sh*t or get off the can. It starts with Jim Weaver, and I hate to kick a good man out, but it’s time.
I admit that I am not a JW supporter, but that is not the reason I’m writing this. Any other employee at the school, with similar health problems, would have already retired (or forced to retire). Why is JW different? Quite to the contrary, because of his health problems, he is having a negative effect on the athletic programs he oversees. JW should retire, or be told to make arrangements for retirement in the near future.
Thanks for the article. I have said before in order for Tech basketball to move forward and be competitive in the ACC we would need for the Athletic Director and Virginia Tech administration to be supportive. This obviously means financially with paying good people to run your program. Salaries must be competitive with your peers and you need to find good people committed to coaching and staying on board. Money is a huge factor and Tech must not neglect this need. We want to be successful in all our athletic programs and we have the money to make it happen. The current AD is football focused and football brings in the big bucks; however, we should have higher goals than just football. All Hokies should write Mr. Weaver and demand it! I am speaking of both girls and boys basketball because both need a shot in the arm.
Slim, we did not join the ACC for basketball; Big East basketball was and still is probably better. Chris is right in his assessment; certainly a better fit: money wise, expense wise, recruiting wise, alum fan base can travel to away games, etc. AND the conference offers a whole lot more stability and security than where we were before.
If we’re looking for a name Tech basketball grad for name appeal – why not Allan Bristow?
I know his last gigs were pretty high paid spots – NBA GM and head coach. But with all that money already in his bank, seems like he could afford to be a $100,000 – $130,000 a year assistant. Not sure what he is doing now; maybe you know?
He surely knows something about playing ball – NBA player experience, coaching experiences, PR and running a basketball oragianzation.
As an alumni, i’m sure he’s pitched in some bucks over the years; but here’s his chance to step up personally and be involved where and when our Basketball program needs to climb the ridge, reach the next plateau, and stay there.
Well as I said on the hoops board, Bristow would not be interested in that job anymore than Frank Beamer would be interested in coaching Blacksburg High School after he retires from Tech. Bristow is simply too qualified, IMO.
Plus, that would be pretty uncomfortable for Seth, IMO. You are coming off a losing season, some people want you gone, and a VT legend who happens to have been an NBA coach and executive is sitting next to you on the bench? Not a good situation, IMO. Leaves too much room for dissent.
I don’t know what AB is up to right now but I know he is at least 61 years old. That is pretty old to get into college basketball, especially the recruiting responsibility.
I am going to stay on my band wagon. Time for Weaver to retire. I don’ t think Tech can wait until he is 70 and voluntarily retires.
Seems to me the last contract negotiated by Coach Greenberg never even mentioned assistant salaries. Seth did a good job for himself but not the program. Compare this to Coach Beamer and Mr Weavers inexcusable “poker play” and it was all about assistant coaches pay.
Didn’t Odom leave right after the contract extension for Greenberg?
It might not be in his own personal contract per se, but Seth has fought to get his assistants raises. I do know that.
Good info, but one quibble. Considering the cost of living in Blacksburg, I don’t think Odom getting a raise from 110 to 120 is really a raise, considering it’s comparing Blacksburg to Charlotte.
Also, on Adrian Autry and a “paltry” $95K. Again, for the ‘burg, it’s not paltry….but it’s also not necessarily competitive. Or (in Autry’s case) is it? He was at that point a first year assistant. First ever assistant job. What’s the going rate? It was twice what he was making as the director of basketball ops.
So good blog, good info, but the info I find most telling is the UVA comparison to James Johnson, and the Stacey Palmore numbers. Yeah, sounds like a few more bucks could/should go to the basketball coaching staff.
Correct on Charlotte/Bbburg cost of living, but the salary comparison also shows Odom who wants him and who is dedicated, and who is not.
And the number I heard that Dayton was throwing at Autry was a lot higher than a $10K raise. It was up closer to James Johnson’s salary. A big enough raise to more than offset whatever cost of living advantage that Blacksburg has.
Cost of living difference between Charlotte and Blacksburg is negligible. In fact according to some cost of living calculators, cost of living in Blacksburg is higher.
http://www.bankrate.com/calculators/mortgages/moving-cost-of-living-calculator.aspx?ec_id=m1025836&ef_id=xklOsZKfdTwAAE8k%3a20120409160757%3as
Bingo. I realize that Charlotte just keeps annexing land, but never the less, a very close friend bought a 4 bedroom home w/ 2 car garage for about 10K more than i paid for our 2 bedroom one bath condo in blacksburg.
Charlotte is cheap. Dirt cheap.
Living in the burg is also not for everyone.
Mr. Coleman -
If Tech ain’t committed to basketball, then why the heck did we join a basketball-centric conference such as the ACC?
Momma will tell you why – it’s because the fan base loves basketball almost as much as football, and wanted into the ACC since the early ’70′s.
It’s time to find an athletic director and administration team who will promote all sports at Tech and pay appropriate salaries to get the coaches and assistants we need to be in the top half of the ACC in every sport.
Is there anyone out there (in Hokie nation) who doesn’t think Tech has the talent and is attractive enough to all athletes to be able to rise to the upper half in every sport we participate in?
Tech continues to miss a golden opportunity to promote our Olympic sports and how wonderful this university is all-around.
God bless Hokie Nation!
/r
Slim
Why did we join? Simple. More money and the right fit. Our fan support has definitely increased since joining the ACC, but it’s nowhere near what it is for football.
And, if the athletic department ( mainly Weaver) is not behind it to make it better, it never will be!!
20+ years as a student/alum of VT and I have never gotten the impression that basketball is anywhere even close to parity for football. Even in the “golden” 95-96 2 seasons under Foster they often played to barely half full Cassell even when they were ranked for most of that 96 season.
hokiejamie is right on with that comment. I was a senior that year. I made it to almost every game, save the ones over Christmas break and it was really depressing. We were ranked maybe #15 and there were 5500 people at the game on a Saturday afternoon. I can see a small turnout for Tuesday or Wednesday, but Saturday. Only during the game against UMass(they were #1) was it sold out. We were coming off a pretty successful previous year, winning the NIT. I can never forget Travis Jackson hitting that 3 from the corner at Cassel to win the game agains New Mexico State and send us to NYC.
I remember seeing an interview with Coach Foster after a home win during that highly-ranked 1995-96 season, and I don’t know why he said this, but he said, “I’m still waiting to see Cassell Coliseum full” — and here he looked right at the camera — “I mean REALLY full.”
It wasn’t Bill Foster’s fault, and it wasn’t the players’ fault … it was the A-10. Just not sexy. At all.